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  Saturday, 10 March 2018
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I was wondering if JCE will try to implement in the future some kind of easy element drag & drop & editing interface possibility for the backend & frontend Edition ?
more than a month ago
·
#95419
Accepted Answer
Before you get too excited, please note:

1. This is not Guttenberg, but will have some Guttenberg-like features, such as the ability to insert content blocks and manage blocks as single items (move, delete, copy)

2. This is still some months away, and will only appear in JCE 3, initially in quite a simple form.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get you.

more than a month ago
·
#95410
Not drag&drop elements, but I have a plan to introduce visual content blocks, a little bit like those in WordPress Gutenberg.

Visual Blocks, as in the current editor, will be able to be moved up and down, and deleted.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get you.

more than a month ago
·
#95418
:D Absolutely beautiful, exactly what I was thinking. This way of editing is the way of the near future, in fact NOW as Gutenberg is already available.
If nobody react on the Joomla side, CMS using this way of editing content will be the champions of tomorrow.

CMS without that technology will disappear. I know that you have page builders in Joomla and sadly, after using JCE for so many years, I was looking to replace it or add this type of no-mistake, straightforward type of edition system for my clients

The main drawback is that the new complexity of building content that need to be encase in div and other block element and the need to have a constant uniform look is extremely difficult to master and control to the average site editor. This complexity kill the CMS itself as it is now difficult to “Manage content”.

I see this type of construction change even the templating system in CMS. It should happen at the article level first but, as page builders show, can also be applied at the template level.

Pre-build entire sections, pre-build pages, pre-build article, pre-build elements, all that with the possibility for the site designer to customize those reusable block to keep the uniformity needed to have professional looking web sites. In fact, the designer should be able to customize the levels of modification each editor need.

I can’t wait to see it happen, just a little nervous that Joomla seem to be silent on this.
more than a month ago
·
#95419
Accepted Answer
Before you get too excited, please note:

1. This is not Guttenberg, but will have some Guttenberg-like features, such as the ability to insert content blocks and manage blocks as single items (move, delete, copy)

2. This is still some months away, and will only appear in JCE 3, initially in quite a simple form.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get you.

more than a month ago
·
#95420
Cool Ryan, I cannot wait to try!
more than a month ago
·
#97245
This is exactly what I came here to ask about. I am looking for a somewhat basic page builder that is within JCE so it can be used in any interface the editor shows up in. I keep testing out page builders but they are too much outside of the system if that makes sense. If JCE could have some more functionality in this regard it would be more native to the core and I feel a better solution overall.

I am not familiar with Gutenberg but some type of column editing would be nice. Some background images and a few bells and whistles or more.

Any idea when this could be around for testing?

Thank Ryan, very good to hear.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97247
I see something base on a mix of Flexbox & CSS Grid
— Need to be wysiwyg
— Need to be able to insert pre-establish custom block
— Need Live edition

— Take a look at SP Page Builder or JSN Page Builder as example
more than a month ago
·
#97249
I just bought a pro license to SP Page Builder to test and see how it works. I look forward to hearing what Ryan has planned for JCE but I need to find a solution fairly quick for a client.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97250
I just bought a pro license to SP Page Builder to test and see how it works. I look forward to hearing what Ryan has planned for JCE but I need to find a solution fairly quick for a client.
Cool Dave. When you have time Tell me what you think about it...

I’m testing Their helix ultimate template right now. Did you see their article editor, not wysiwyg at all, not usable for any client. The frontal edition is really good but saddly they didn’t bring it at the article level.

The only page/article builder that work at article level and is wysiwyg, so far is JoomlaShine — JSN Page Builder, I buy a subscription of it and I will test it.
more than a month ago
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#97252
I immediately found that JCE and SP Page Builder do not play well. I had to disable JCE to use the Article feature in SPPB. So only the stand alone component was going to work well since I cannot possibly disable JCE.

The real issue and the primary reason why I would pay Ryan for another product is simple. I need something to build some layouts using the native core Joomla system. I found most things do not work well with any page builder regarding SEO extensions. There are so many issues I won't even list them but I have been working with Joomla for 8 years and finally have a pretty solid set of tools that work together. Just found a Yoast extension and Google Structured Data component but both have issues with none native core features like these page builders. I could use the SPPB to create landing pages only and stick with articles for my normal page layouts. But that is not really helping me with these more customized layouts I want to create in articles.

Even something simple for now that allows me to use columns and rows like RSPage Builder does but is part of JCE and has an editor for each column would be fine for now. Maybe a way to add some background images that can be set to cover, contain, etc. so we can fancy it up a bit. Then just a way to set the rows to full height or alignments to layout a few things.

Ryan, is anything like this even being considered in the near future?

Perhaps this type of layout could work? See image attached.

A way to add rows with columns and each has it's own editor window and the row had some options for background, height, etc. Maybe each column could have a few simple settings as well. I can use my template for mobile styles.

JCE.jpg

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97255
As Ryan say
Not drag&drop elements, but I have a plan to introduce visual content blocks, a little bit like those in WordPress Gutenberg.

Visual Blocks, as in the current editor, will be able to be moved up and down, and deleted.


Visual block that can be move can be a good start. — Thinking............! :D

• Having the possibility to create,save,reuse,import,export (in another site by JCE) and name visual blocks a little bit like the actual JCE Template system
• Visual blocks can contain simple or complex set of element - Text-Image-other visual block group....
• Having the possibility to create grid of visual blocks (inside a visual block) base on Bootstrap 4 and/or the CSS Grid layout (include in Joomla 4)
• Personally I will go as far as create a new view and tools in JCE Editor especially for the New Visual Editor

I use the button from SP Page Builder — Let go your imagination ...
Maybe you can even use the same JCE tools to edit your selection or create a visual block (See black cursor) further edition and tools in the blue and white toolbar...
JCE-Editor.jpg
more than a month ago
·
#97256
So SP Page Builder is not really working out. It has a bunch of issues on my test site that are probably going to make me ask for a refund.

1. The search feature doesn't show any of the page text only the page title. Not idea.
2. Deleted pages are stuck in the database or somewhere cause they showing up in the search and cannot be removed.
3. Date is missing so Google Structured Data is showing Errors
4. Can't use it with Articles because it doesn't work with JCE

I barely scratched the surface of testing but simple structural issues like this and SEO problems are why we need a more native solution so all the core functionality work like it should.

Hopefully Ryan will have something to say so I can make a decision before the refund period runs out.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97257

The only page/article builder that work at article level and is wysiwyg, so far is JoomlaShine — JSN Page Builder, I buy a subscription of it and I will test it.


Just downloaded the free version and you are correct. This is a much more native solution but I need to test and see what issues there are with SEO or other things. Seems to work with search and Google Structured Data tests.

It loads slow like it's connecting to a remote server each time.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97258
Ok Dave , I will abandon SP (The errors reported are to major for me to waste my time) — Also what I hate the most this component want to force frontal edition (contrary to the backend/frontend system of Joomla and worst completely obscure the backend edition. Not Joomla friendly at all. It’s just like those tentacular supposedly multilingual extensions that are absolutely not needed with the great actual onboard Joomla system...

I think what is needed is a really cool visual editor that will work at the article level and at the custom module level, Joomla already got the frontal edition, you just click and the visual editor embark, that’s it... — This is the future of Joomla/cms edition. If this can build it on top of the fantastic JCE it will be really revolutionary.


— I will also embark on the testing of JSN Page Builder — As you say, hopefully Ryan can do a Miracle...

I send you a private message here.


——————————————————————————————————————
Ryan, happy to help, if I can in any way.
In my simple mind :D the mockup I put here, I think can be interesting as Normal JCE Tools can be use in the “Visual Editor”

Also each “Visual blocks” can have their own set of Settings (Blue right square on select “visual block” ) accessible with The Pen Tool — The Cross-air is to move the block and is content — Double Square is for Duplicating — The Floppy Disk is to save to the “Visuals Block” Librairie — The Eye is for the preview — The two square side by side are the “Grid” Tools ( to create columns or repeating side by side elements...

Remember this is taken from SP
more than a month ago
·
#97264
I have been testing this as well. JSN Page Builder is better in many ways because it works at article level and can be used in a module. I don't love all the inline CSS and it's rather basic. So JCE could probably fill this void better. Perhaps this is more of the one to model for Ryan vs SPPB.

I am curious what Ryan has to say??

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97270
Oh, I forgot to mention why I was going to ditch even JSN Page Builder. They are still using MooTools. It appears they are not keeping up with the times on this.

I am not a developer so I only know I thought that Joomla was moving away from this to jquery. Thoughts?

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97273
Just to make a few things clear:

1. JCE will not become a page builder, nor is any page building functionality planned. A page builder is a separate extension that creates content instead of the Joomla Article Manager. JCE works within the Joomla Article Manager, or other content extensions like K2.

2. JCE may, sometime in the future, include block type content creation, that is, creating content quickly from pre-defined content blocks which can then be edited. Examples might include a youtube video block, image and caption block, grid block etc.

4. Can't use it with Articles because it doesn't work with JCE


I have provided a fix for this on the SP Page Builder forum. It will be included in the next SP Page Builder release.

You might also look at Yootheme Pro as a site builder extension - https://yootheme.com/pro

Yootheme WidgetKit is also useful as a content creation tool that can be used within other content extensions, like the Joomla Article Manager - https://yootheme.com/widgetkit

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get you.

more than a month ago
·
#97274
Hi Ryan, I did not know about widgetkit but it looks very promising. I have already figured out how to overcome the shortcode issue the Joomla search so if all the other issues the rest of these have and no conflict with JCE then this might be the ticket.

I guess I need to buy it to try it but they have a refund. They are a well known name.

Thank you

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97275
Ryan, correct me Dave if I’m wrong, we are not talking about those page builders, like SP that work almost completely independently of Joomla but, what is needed is exactly what you propose (block type content creation) in your existing editor, working in the Article manager.

As an image value 1000 words if you look at my Image Mockup, this is your exactly same editor, working in the article manager with simply (I’m sure not so simple :) ) a new tab with the VISUAL ARTICLE BUILDER (working with block (div) blablabla... )

In the JED you have only 2 editor like that ( Not SP Page Builder, Not Quix

Only two real ARTICLES EDITORS (that work in the article manager as an editor (like JCE) and on the frontal edition of all Joomla article & custom module) are on the JED.
— JSN Page Builder (Should be name JSN Article Builder)
— NextGen Editor
Both are normal joomla editor but give you a visual simplify edition
more than a month ago
·
#97276
I'm going to try widgetkit now and see how that goes. Yes I was looking for simple with JCE but if YooTheme has a good solution then mabye it's better in the long run.

Let me know if you need help with overcoming the shortcode search issue of the shortcode being shown in searches. Although it may not be an issue with widgetkit like it is with Themler.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97278
Widgetkit is not at all what I needed.

SPPB is the only thing that does what I want but it is not technically compatible for me. Perhaps they will fix the issues.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97296
So I have been working with SPPB support and they seem willing to get all these issues fixed. This one looks like the winner now and has module support which is a huge bonus.

I totally get where Ryan is coming from about the editor being an editor not a page builder. While I would welcome a way to layout rows with their own editor for each column that is not going to happen soon enough for me anyway.

Widgetkit was too complicated and not visual enough for my users.

JSN is strange and much less user friendly. They claim it does not load MooTools but when I enable their plugins MooTools loads on all pages. Blah, don't need another 250KB script loading.

There was another one I tested that used Bootstrap from my template which was the leanest in terms of adding more bloat to the site. But alas it's did not have module support or work with articles. RSPage builder is free and very basic but was a good option if you don't need Google Structured Data added.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97297
Cool Dave, I will work also with SPPB. Hopefully they will add the wysiwyg possibility in the backend — JCE will be still there to create blog articles and other changing easy content.

Saddly 2 system — 2 interface.

I use JCE for ages, and the biggest problem is when unexperienced editors are building content (80% of the editors), they have difficulty tu build even the simplest pages. And if the content is a little bit more complex, they soon make mistake in the edition that become html nightmare.

Most of the time, they simply finally quit creating content altogether, killing the purpose in having a CMS spirit.

Having an editor that take away this possibility to edit and move block around without the possibility of messing the code will be fantastic.

I”m not sure that Ryan understood what my Mockup image represent, not a Page builder but to simply create in JCE the ability to have a very visual, Foolproof JOOMLA ARTICLE & CUSTOM HTML MODULE BUILDER.

I think me and Ryan talking about the exact same thing :p

What Ryan say:
I have a plan to introduce visual content blocks
• ability to insert content blocks and manage blocks as single items
• will be able to be moved up and down, and deleted
• creating content quickly from pre-defined content blocks which can then be edited.

Examples might include a youtube video block, image and caption block, grid block etc.


What my visual show and the ideas I just put together:

I quote myself

• Having the possibility to create,save,reuse,import,export (in another site by JCE) and name visual blocks a little bit like the actual JCE Template system
• Visual blocks can contain simple or complex set of element - Text-Image-other visual block group....
• Having the possibility to create grid of visual blocks (inside a visual block) base on Bootstrap 4 and/or the CSS Grid layout (include in Joomla 4)
• Personally I will go as far as create a new view and tools in JCE Editor especially for the New Visual Editor


The idea in having this block editor in a new tab, in JCE, is to assure that anybody can build content without making mistakes
• Newbie editors (80% of editors are secretary or people that don’t even know what html is) can use the visual block editor
• Experienced editors can use the normal JCE tabs
• webmaster an top notch editors can use the HTML tab

All tabs and sets of tools available working with ACL or are simply set up in the already onboard JCE ACL/Users settings.
more than a month ago
·
#97305
I am still not sure what to do. SPPB is OK but as you say 2 systems and there are issues. If I were to use this it probably would be for modules only.

I am still talking to JSN about their builder and why it's loading MooTools. They claim it doesn't but I am pretty sure it is. That's just unsettling. It also loads 9 scripts on every page regardless of whether it's used or not.

Why can't someone just use a Bootstrap type system and not bloat the site so much. 450 KB of scripts to add JSN to my site plus the css and what not.

Oh the decisions.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97310
Why can't someone just use a Bootstrap type system and not bloat the site so much. 450 KB of scripts to add JSN to my site plus the css and what not.


Hopefully, somebody will listen and understand that a visual simple editor is needed, same for backend as frontend. I can’t wait to test the visual blocks in JCE — I love JCE and hopefully it will become this New Editor that is so much needed in this CMS or any other.
more than a month ago
·
#97311
SPPB works in the backend no problem. Just so hung up on the extra system and potential bugs that come with it.

RSPagebuilder is actually a decent option but it's another standalone system. The good part is it's all bootstrap so very little overhead. Just no SEO options from core components. It is always something.

There is some tinymce bootstrap plugin that I saw but again, not JCE.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97320
Dave, did you try the NextGenEditor I send you?
more than a month ago
·
#97323
Hi I just found this in my spam folder. I took a pass on NextGen after looking at the website and trying the demo. JSN is a big concern and the support is pretty bad. I had to prove to them they use MooTools in their own extension. I would NEVER use a extension that the company doesn't even know what is going on. It loads 6 scripts on every page even if you don't use it.

I am just going to keep looking and keep working with SPPB for now. It's the only interface that is polished and has a easy user interface. It's integrated enough into the core so at least my article/menu details are used. Tassos Google Structured Data extension works with it. They just need to work out a few issues.

I hope someday a better solution comes along. If only RSPage builder would work. It's straight up Bootstrap and very low overhead but doesn't work with Joomla search or Google Structured Data. Their support won't help because it is a free extension.

Oh well, at least with SPPB I would switch to their templates too and all would be one system.

Too bad YooTheme is confusing. I did not try the page builder only the widgetkit.

Hey careful man, there's a beverage here!

more than a month ago
·
#97328
Thanks Dave, great testing. I will support SPPB also.
more than a month ago
·
#108945
Hi Ryan,

In this thread you wrote:

Not drag&drop elements, but I have a plan to introduce visual content blocks, a little bit like those in WordPress Gutenberg.
Visual Blocks, as in the current editor, will be able to be moved up and down, and deleted.


Sounds good to me - and better than those page building extensions that bypass a lot of the powerful features of the Joomla core.

How are you getting on with this plan? Do you think it will be released in the near future? More and more of our customers are asking for something like this, which - in their perception - is where WP beats Joomla.

Kind regards, Frits
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